VESPA/OFM Athletes Define a New Paradigm for Metabolic Health & Performance

Peter Defty and Andrea Moore get together to discuss shattering boundaries in human health & performance. In early May Andrea completed the Cocodona 250, while a month  earlier she completed the inaugural edition of the Arizona Monster 300. Completing both became known as “Monsterdona” with only 6-7 athletes able to complete both of these grueling trail ultras. But the adventure does not end there. As this podcasts drops for public consumption Andrea is finishing up the Tahoe 200 and has plans for another 5 200+ mile trail ultras this season. 

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Peter Defty and Andrea Moore get together to discuss shattering boundaries in human health & performance. In early May Andrea completed the Cocodona 250, while a month  earlier she completed the inaugural edition of the Arizona Monster 300. Completing both became known as “Monsterdona” with only 6-7 athletes able to complete both of these grueling trail ultras. But the adventure does not end there. As this podcasts drops for public consumption Andrea is finishing up the Tahoe 200 and has plans for another 5 200+ mile trail ultras this season. 

The podcast starts with Andrea’s motivations for ultrarunning, and the challenging aspects of the Monster 300. Andrea highlights the beauty and difficulty of the sport, her experience with a particularly tough section of the Monster 300, and the benefits of Vespa, a natural metabolic catalyst, and a higher-fat & protein diet for recovery and performance. This approach is very individualized and contextual. Andrea contrasts her approach with that of elite runners like Jeff Browning and Peter Mortimer. While Diet & VESPA are key tools, Peter and Andrea explore other factors important to health and performance during a race like sleep strategies, the supportive nature of the ultrarunning community, and the importance of pushing beyond comfort zones.

What makes this possible? . . . have a listen and learn because this podcast covers the entire spectrum of performance fat adaptation. 

Details

• Welcome and Monster Donut Overview Peter Defty welcomed Andrea Moore to the podcast to discuss her recent completion of the "Monsterdona," which involved finishing both the Monster 300 in early April and the Cocodona 250 in early May. Andrea explained that around 21 people registered for both, with approximately six or seven completing them, including herself and Ana Robbins as the only two females.
• Andrea's Motivation and Journey Peter aimed to explore Andrea's journey and how her life experiences have shaped her ultrarunning endeavors, particularly the Monsterdona. Andrea stated that she has always wanted to go above and beyond, and the idea of doing both races back-to-back was intriguing to her. She also wanted to represent female runners in the sport.
• Candace and Destination Trails Peter Defty credited Candace for pioneering the 200+ mile races that make the Monsterdona possible. Andrea expressed gratitude for Candace's vision and the opportunity to explore these challenging courses. Andrea has completed several of these races, with the Tahoe Rim Trail being the only one she hasn't finished yet.
• Social Media and the Reality of Ultrarunning Peter praises Andrea's social media content for showing both the beauty and the raw challenges of ultrarunning . Andrea explained that while beautiful moments are often shared, there's also a difficult side that she is trying to portray more openly. She believes these challenging moments are transformative.
• The Difficult Section of Monster 300 Peter inquired about a particularly tough stretch between Oak Creek and Casablanca around mile 280 of the Monster 300 that many runners struggled with (00:11:50). Andrea described it as a hot, exposed 22-mile section after a draining day in the desert, creating low morale among runners (00:12:49). Despite the difficulty, she and her pacer Stephanie Rosenbaugh focused on getting through it.
• Vespa and Recovery Strategy Peter notes the increased interest in Andrea's recovery strategies, particularly the use of Vespa. Andrea emphasized the importance of proper fueling and the impact of Vespa on her ability to recover and continue racing. She mentioned Stephanie Rosenbaugh's interest in learning more about Vespa's benefits.
• Andrea's Racing Philosophy Peter contrasts Andrea's approach with elite runners like Jeff Browning and Peter Mortimer. Andrea clarified that her primary goal is to explore more and go further rather than focusing on speed or podium finishes. She aims to add more fun to her running adventures through smart recovery and fueling.
• The Training Effect of Monster 300 Peter posits that Andrea seemed to benefit from the Monster 300, feeling stronger at Cocadona despite the close proximity of the two races. Andrea agreed, stating she felt stronger at Cocadona than at Monster, attributing it to ‘Training Effect’. She anticipates feeling even stronger at the upcoming Tahoe 200 race.
• Improvement in Cocadona Performance Peter noted Andrea's significantly better experience at this year's Cocadona compared to the previous year. Andrea confirmed a vast improvement, recalling a difficult section last year that felt much easier this year due to increased fitness. She feels like she is continually building her robust health from these events.
• Exposure and Challenges in Monster 300 Peter highlights the extreme exposure and time Andrea spent on the course compared to faster finishers like Peter Mortimer. Andrea recounted the intense heat and the mentally challenging 22-mile section leading into Casablanca, where many runners, including Mortimer and Scott Jenkins, struggled. The repetitive terrain of that section made it feel endless.
• Sleep Strategy for Ultra Races Peter then  shifts the conversation to sleep strategies in ultrarunning, emphasizing its importance for fat-adapted athletes. Andrea shared that at Monster, she likely got around six hours of total sleep, usually in shorter 20-minute increments at aid stations (00:23:35). Her crew chief and Life Partner, Jackie, often sets timers for less than an hour and a half for longer stops.
• Optimizing Sleep During Races Peter suggested allowing more sleep for runners who are deeply asleep during longer planned stops. Andrea confirmed that Jackie often does a "check-in" to see if she can be nudged awake or if she needs more rest. Both agreed on the magical quality of around an hour and a half of solid sleep.
• Dirt Naps and Short Rest Strategies Andrea Moore described her positive experiences with short "dirt naps," finding eight minutes with her feet elevated to be a surprisingly effective recovery. Peter shared a similar experience with a four-minute nap while pacing an elite runner at Western States. They agreed that even short breaks can improve efficiency in the long run.
• Peter Mortimer's Race Strategy and Pacing Peter Defty recounted Peter Mortimer's strategic racing, including his composed demeanor and sleep strategy of letting others leave aid stations first. Andrea shared her insightful experience of being paced by Mortimer, noting his efficiency and care for other runners. Mortimer also encouraged others to use Vespa 
• Crew Support and Aid Station Logistics Peter described his crewing efforts for Peter Mortimer, including a late-night ‘In-’n-Out / Starbucks run to South Tucson. Andrea highlighted the fun and supportive atmosphere of having Mortimer as a pacer during Cocodona. Peter asked where Mortimer paced Andrea, and she specified the 20+ sections from Jerome to Deer Pass, which she thoroughly enjoyed.
• Low Points and Mental Strategies During Monster 300 Peter inquired about Andrea's low points during Cocodona. Andrea mentioned a tough muddy pasture section after Fain Ranch but credited her positive mindset and camaraderie with fellow runners for getting through it (00:33:45). Her biggest low point was night one, feeling mentally fatigued and questioning her ability to finish. Making a Tik Tok helped her reframe her mindset and push through.
• Sleep Stops During Cocodona 250: Peter Defty asked about Andrea Moore's first sleep stop. Andrea recalled sleeping for about 45 minutes at Whiskey Row, feeling comforted by seeing her crew .
• Course Conditions and Progress Andrea Moore described running a good section from the Dells to Iron King and reaching the climb up Mingus Mountain before sunset for the first time, allowing her to see new sections in daylight. She noted the super muddy conditions around Fain Ranch.
• Mingus Mountain Aid Station Andrea Moore recounted reaching the Mingus aid station before sunrise, another first for her. She took a 20-minute nap there after dealing with muddy shoes and gratefully accepting dry socks from a stranger.
• Appreciation for the Arizona Trail Landscape Peter and Andrea express their appreciation for the epic landscapes of both northern and southern Arizona, where the races take place. Andrea found the southern Arizona Trail during Monster to be particularly beautiful.
• The Climb up Mount Lemon Andrea Moore described the steep and seemingly endless climb up Mount Lemon, with incredible views. She noted the unique experience of interacting with Arizona Trail through-hikers during the race. She climbed it during the sunrise, contrasting with the snowstorm experienced by faster runners like Peter Mortimer and Chad Bruce.
• Avoiding Storms in Races Andrea Moore mentioned narrowly avoiding a snowstorm on Lane Mountain during Cocadona 250, similar to how she avoided one on Mount Lemon during the Monster 300.
• Upcoming Race Schedule and Goals Peter inquired about Andrea's upcoming race schedule. Andrea listed Tahoe 200, Summit 200, Oregon 200, and the newly added Mammoth 200 as her planned races, totaling seven or possibly eight 200+ mile events for the year.
• Benefits of Fat Adaptation and OFM Peter highlights the ease with which fat-adapted athletes like Andrea can manage their nutrition during ultras. Andrea emphasized the massive difference in her recovery and performance since adopting a high-protein, higher fat, lower carb approach influenced by the OFM community. She clarified that it's not a zero-carb ketogenic diet but focuses on whole foods like meat, eggs, cheese, and berries.
• Mindful Eating and Cravings Andrea discusses her mindful approach to occasional cravings like nachos, prioritizing whole, unprocessed foods most of the time. She mentioned her partner Jackie's cooking, often making healthier versions of treats like pizza and spring rolls. She is more aware of how she feels after eating gluten or heavily processed foods.
• The Importance of Vespa for Energy and Recovery Andrea Moore emphasized the crucial role of Vespa for steady energy toavoid bonking and crashes, noting a significant difference in her energy levels and muscle soreness during a section of Monster where she didn't have it . She now ensures she always has Vespa during races.
• Contrasting Fueling Strategies Peter shared an anecdote about Nikki Kimball experiencing energy dips without Vespa and his observations of runners benefiting from Vespa during Western States. Andrea detailed her fueling strategy during the Lane Mountain climb at Cocadona, which included Vespa, ketones, fruit juices, and a few cookies, primarily focusing on liquid calories.
• Psychological Benefits of OFM Fueling Peter Defty concluded by highlighting the psychological ease and confidence that comes with fat adaptation and relying on Vespa, allowing runners to be less reliant on specific aid station foods. Andrea agreed with this sentiment.
• Vespa Fueling Experience Andrea discusses with Peter  her and Peter Mortimer’s experiences using Vespa for long runs. Andrea found it surprising how little fueling was needed even for a 22-mile section, relying mainly on Vespa, water, and electrolytes. Peter noted that experiencing it firsthand is crucial for understanding its effectiveness.
• Recovery Enhancement Peter explains that both becoming fat-adapted and using Vespa significantly enhance recovery. He clarified that it's not necessarily faster recovery, but rather the prevention of cellular and mitochondrial damage caused by burning excessive sugar. This reduced damage allows the body to focus more on adaptation and training effect.
• Excessive Sugar Intake Peter highlights the large amount of sugar the average athlete consumes while training, estimating it to be around 155 pounds in six months for someone following standard sports nutrition guidelines. He emphasized that OFM and VESPA advocate for reducing, not eliminating, sugar intake. Andrea Moore shared how cutting back on sugar and focusing on protein and fat, as advised by Mike, has been beneficial.
• Shift in Diet Andrea recounted how she transitioned from a vegan/vegetarian diet to incorporating meat, specifically fatty cuts like New York strips, at the suggestion of Mike around six months before her first Cocodona race. Initially, she could only eat a few bites of steak, but now it's a regular part of her diet for lunch. She satisfies sugar cravings with berries.
• Improved Performance and Recovery Andrea expresses surprise at how good she felt physically at Cocodona  after completing Monster, attributing it to the adaptationfrom ‘training effect’ rather than just recovery. People noticed her lean physique, and she felt the benefits of the consistent process. She also noted a suppressed appetite after races, contrary to typical experiences, which Peter linked to stabilized blood sugar levels and restored circadian rhythms.
• Importance of Hardship and Passion Andrea Moore shared their philosophy of writing their own story and making hard decisions to truly live and feel alive. Peter agreed, noting that support from a community becomes available when individuals are committed to doing the work themselves. Andrea emphasized that a supportive tribe forms when passion is fueled by taking charge and facing challenges.
• Pushing Beyond Comfort Zones Andrea stresses the importance of constantly moving forward and experiencing new things, contrasting this with the stagnation of staying in a comfort zone. Peter links this to our natural dynamic state versus the static nature of modern, comfortable living. Andrea believes fully living means embracing the unknown and overcoming fear to discover what lies ahead.
• Human Capability and Inspiration Andrea asserts that everyone is capable of achieving great things, regardless of perceived limitations or pedestals placed on others. Peter Defty highlights how individuals like Peter Mortimer find joy in supporting others as much as achieving personal success. Andrea emphasized the down-to-earth nature of even elite athletes and the importance of deciding, planning, working, and believing to reach one's goals.
• Mark Allen's Interest in Vespa Peter Defty mentioned that the GOAT of IronMan, Mark Allen, is now using and intrigued with Vespa, and they are engaging in insightful discussions about it. This highlights the broad appeal and effectiveness of Vespa across different endurance sports and with highly experienced athletes.
• Andrea's Journey and Inspiration Peter commends Andrea Moore for her insights and inspirational impact, planning to share these insights with his children. Andrea described her journey from being unable to run a mile in 2017 to achieving incredible feats like running 600 miles in a month, all starting with a simple decision and gradual effort. Peter thanked Andrea for being an outstanding ambassador for the OFM movement and VESPA and for sharing a real and balanced perspective.